Talk:Salt (chemistry)

Weak salt was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 7 March 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Salt (chemistry). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Strong salt was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 7 March 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Salt (chemistry). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article was selected as the article for improvement for a period of one week.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, Salt → Salt (chemistry), Moved, 24 May 2007, Special:Permalink/133087430#Requested move
RM, Salt (chemistry) → Salts, Not moved, 26 December 2022, Special:Permalink/1130975138#Requested move 26 December 2022

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What about ammoniumironhexacyanoferrate

caesium-binder (see for ex), toxic ?, color ?--Lamiot (talk) 16:41, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It would be at Ammonium iron hexacyanoferrate, the fully systematic Ammonium iron(III) hexacyanidoferrate(II), the older-style Ammonium ferric hexacyanoferrate (AFCF), or possibly Giese salt. I don't see any of them on any wiki. DMacks (talk) 17:41, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

doi:10.2903/j.efsa.2021.6628 has some information about it as a feed additive (and a note about its crystal structure). It's related to Prussian blue. It's mentioned in our Caesium-137 article as a reagent or treatment for converting soluble radioactive cesium salts less-soluble. DMacks (talk) 17:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I propose salt (chemistry) be merged with ionic compound due to salt being synonymous with or nearly synonymous with ionic compound.OrganoMetallurgy (talk) 00:08, 1 July 2017 (UTC) edited OrganoMetallurgy (talk) 14:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose.~~ Per their definitions, salts are a only a subset of ionic compounds—those conceptually formed by acid+base, which seems to exclude those that are themselves the parent acid/base (Na₂O for example). DMacks (talk) 19:57, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Any anion can viewed as being a derived from some parent acid, and any cation can likewise be viewed as derived from some parent base. Na₂O can be formed from sodium hydroxide, acting as the acid, and sodium hydride, acting as the base, at high enough temperatures. OrganoMetallurgy (talk) 20:50, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What is the parent acid of hydride? I don't think anyone that understands chemical bonding considers H₂ to be "conceptually H⁺ + H^–". That said and with more thought, given I don't think salts are distinct from ionic compounds, and most of the content about salts is really more generally about ionic compounds. And now for the final nail: IUPAC's Red Book defines "salt" as "A chemical compound consisting of an assembly of cations and anions."[1] I therefore strongly support merger. We can surely retain the idea that acid/base neutralization creates a salt, but not that such a conceptual origin is the definition of it. DMacks (talk) 07:19, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This was almost six years ago, un-acted on. Oh well. DMacks (talk) 00:15, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chemistry

salt can be defined as a substance produced by the reason of an acid with a base. 105.113.41.96 (talk) 12:26, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Differences between salt and ionic compound

What exactly is the difference between salt and ionic compound? This is a question about the definition.

It appears that IUPAC defines salt and ionic compound to be the exact same thing. IUPAC's salt means "a chemical compound consisting of an assembly of cations and anions", which is exactly the definition of ionic compound. Another common definition is that salt is ionic compound that can be produced by neutralization, which is a subset of ionic compound. Currently, the pages Salt and Ionic compound are effectively saying the same thing in their first paragraphs respectively. Salt is cited with IUPAC's definition (which means ionic compound), while Ionic compound is uncited.

If we are to accept the definition of IUPAC (which seems to be reasonable):

The page Salt should be a redirect to the page Ionic compound. In other words, these 2 pages should merge. While it would take quite a lot of effort, it needs to be done.

If we are to accept that salt and ionic compound are not the same thing, and salt is ionic compound that can be produced by neutralization:

The first paragraph of Salt needs to state that explicitly and IUPAC should not be cited.
There can be no such thing as alkali salt and acid salt, since they cannot be produced by neutralization (correct me with examples if I am wrong).

This is of course on top of the mess of the definition of acid and base, that is, which acid-base theory are we subscribed to. If we are to adopt Lewis acids and bases, then again salt and ionic compound effectively means the same thing, whether we use IUPAC's definition or not.

That leads to: is there a third definition? This seems to be an important question that needs to be resolved, ideally with sources. Also, please kindly correct me if I am wrong. Thanks a lot! Throowa (talk) 13:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fewer all caps, instruction, and general bombast would be conducive to collaboration. Salt is a huge topic with many applications and implications and interpretations.--Smokefoot (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if this is too wordy, too much all caps but I sincerely do not think my language is intentionally difficult (quite the contrary), inflated (this problem is very serious) or pretentious (I didn't write anything impressive). Please understand I love to make it short too, but to be precise, I have to use loads of words. With that being said, I will try make it concise and never use all caps again. I understand salt is a huge topic with many applications and implications but this is not relevant to the definition. I also understand salt have many interpretations and that is why I want to discuss. After all, we need to make that consistent. Throowa (talk) 08:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Throowa We have recently discussed which name should be given to the merger of salt (chemistry) and ionic compound. The conclusion has now been implemented, with the former chosen as the main topic (partly because that's the WP:COMMONNAME but with other reasons also mentioned). Hence ionic compound is now a redirect here. As the article alkali salt mentions, such salts are formed when there is incomplete neutralization: one of the most important applications of this is in buffer solutions such as Sodium acetate#Buffer solution which can in practice either be produced by adding some NaOH to acetic acid (in which case there will be some water also formed) or by dissolving anhydrous sodium acetate in glacial acetic acid. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:12, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for clearing things up and the correction of 'alkali salt cannot be produced by neutralization'👍. Throowa (talk) 08:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]