Talk:Fruit

Propose removing Venn Diagram

Asking on here before removing as it's been subject of talk before.

I think we should remove the 'Venn diagram because' it doesn't really illustrate "Some botanical fruit are vegetables" any better than the text.

All it actually shows is that "tomatoes are a culinary vegetable and a botanical fruit," with 5 arbitrary images, which are too small to discern properly; I think the photograph showing the selection of 'fruit often known as vegetables' (which also includes tomatoes) covers this information already and better.

JeffUK (talk) 09:59, 9 October 2021 (UTC) Recent studies show rocks from the U.S. can be grown into various fruits and vegetables. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:A20C:F600:6D57:8756:D92B:A052 (talk) 17:48, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

"Pod types" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Pod types and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 19#Pod types until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 20:39, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

"Fruiting Shrubs" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Fruiting Shrubs and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 19#Fruiting Shrubs until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 20:42, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2022

Propose that:

"In botanical usage, the term "fruit" also includes many structures that are not commonly called "fruits", such as nuts, bean pods, corn kernels, tomatoes, and wheat grains."

is changed to:

"In botanical usage, the term "fruit" also includes many structures that are not commonly called "fruits" in everyday language, such as nuts, bean pods, corn kernels, tomatoes, and wheat grains."

This is in order to make a clearer contrast. 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA00:44E5:151C:28DC:5DD (talk) 08:01, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Seems a useful clarification to me. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:15, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Some seedless fruits

In the corresponding image the kiwi definitely has seeds, they are visible. The apple also likely has seeds. Thus the image description is misleading.--Reciprocist (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Agree and removed. Zefr (talk) 17:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Accessory fruits

The table in the "Table of fleshy fruit examples" section has stone fruit listed as an example of accessory fruit. To my knowledge no stone fruit has accessory tissue. I propose removing this from the examples.Michaplot (talk) 22:12, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Useless Sentence

"In culinary language, a fruit is the sweet- or not sweet- (even sour-) tasting produce of a specific plant (e.g., a peach, pear or lemon)." This translates to, "A fruit is the product of a plant." Does this sentence have any merit? OrewaTel (talk) 02:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, I think it's trying, but failing, to express something tricky, i.e. that plant products that are not botanically fruits can be used as such – rhubarb is perhaps the prime example. So while I agree that the sentence is not useful, it needs to be fixed, not removed. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

If you eat it with custard it's fruit. If it goes well with gravy then it's a vegetable. OrewaTel (talk) 20:53, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

We agree, but is there a reliable source? :-) Peter coxhead (talk) 06:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Including Watermelons as a vegetable example is incorrect

I propose we remove watermelon as an example of a vegetable. In the section covering the difference between a botanical fruit and a culinary fruit, watermelons are given as an example of a kind of a vegetable based off the ruling in Nix vs. Hedden which ruled that tomatoes are legally vegetables. However, per the line's reference, the logic behind the ruling was that tomatoes "should be classified under the customs regulations as a vegetable, based on the ways in which it is used, and the popular perception to this end." "Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in kitchen gardens, and which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are, like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert." Popular perception of a watermelon is as a fruit, not a vegetable, and it's a common summertime dessert so this is an incorrect assertion for this article to make. Risjb (talk) 22:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

• Agree Peter coxhead (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

  Agreed watermelon is a fruit not a vegetable. You are correct, fruits like tomatoes that have a more savory flavor are classified as vegetables in cooking rather than a fruit, however botanically speaking they are fruits as you stated. Woolmadj (talk) 20:33, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

  note; The was something I accidentally added at the last second while fixing my grammar. I do not know how I put it there though. Woolmadj (talk) 20:36, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Pollinators deserve mention

There is mention of pollination and of symbiotic relationship with animals, but sorely missing is the critical dependence of many fruit species upon pollinators. Can anyone take up this task? --Gregrwm (talk) 17:00, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect text

Under "Food Uses" carrots are not a dry fruit and Rice is a grain not a dry fruit, there is no reason for these to be here they are pointless and incorrect. Woolmadj (talk) 20:26, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

By botanical definition, they are all fruits. Zefr (talk) 20:34, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

A carrot is a root. It is not a fruit by any definition. OrewaTel (talk) 07:04, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Carrot seeds are a biological fruit but are not a culinary fruit. So while carrot seeds have a mention in the biological section, neither carrots nor carrot seeds (nor carrot tops) belong in the culinary section. OrewaTel (talk) 07:12, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes I realize that a carrot has a fruit same with potatoes, beats, radishes, etc ,however, it simply said carrot not carrot fruit when people say carrot most of the population will think carrot root, but thank you for correcting me on this topic. Woolmadj (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Strawberry is botanically not a fruit

The seeds are on the outside, so it's an accessory fruit. 31.161.138.94 (talk) 09:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023

v — Preceding unsigned comment added by TcfMacleod651 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Do tell OrewaTel (talk) 22:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Apples are not true fruits.

Apples are listed as a fruit which is not univerally agreed upon, section below - "For example, in botany, a fruit is a ripened ovary or carpel that contains seeds, e.g., an apple"

Apples are often considered a false fruit as they develop atleast in part from the receptacle not the ovary.

I would cite the below,

"False fruits arise from inferior ovaries. In apples (Malus domestica) and pears (Pyrus communis) the mesocarp merges together with the receptacle with no discernible exocarp, because the carpels fuse with receptacle tissues during fruit development."

from this source

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/malus-domestica

Therefore i would remove it in favour of clearer examples of true fruits. Hortic07 (talk) 15:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

This is in the section Botanical vs Culinary? Agreed apples are not the best example of a botanical fruit. I've substituted orange. OrewaTel (talk) 12:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

The definition of a botanical vegetable is not well defined

Main dictionaries, e.g. Oxford, Cambridge and Britanica only list a single definition of fruit. See e.g. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fruit. The wikipedia page is not consistent with this and instead defines the notion of a botanical vegetable, classifying e.g. tomato in this. No consistent definition of this is provided. As assertion is made "In culinary language, a fruit is the sweet- or not sweet- (even sour-) tasting produce of a specific plant" but that does not match with the dictionary definitions. The mis-classification of tomato is a common mistake not a culinary definition.

A reference is made to the supreme court case of Nix v. Hedden. However it is unclear why the US changing the legal definition of a tomato should mean that a non-dictionary definition should be used on the global Wikipedia page. A clear cut definition of a culinary vegetable should be included if it exists not simply a list of vegetables. I maintain that such a definition does not exist. If it does a links to a reputable dictionary with this definition should be included. Hallomotocar (talk) 18:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

There is no definition of a botanic vegetable. (If it existed then it would include everything from the plant kingdom.) There is a definition of a botanical fruit and consequently a definition of a botanical non-fruit can be constructed. Unfortunately in common speech we use a different meaning of fruit that is best described by giving a list. (Tomatoes and Bell Peppers are not fruits but strawberries are. Even Rhubarb stalks are sometimes called fruits.) Many dictionaries are not helpful. They conflate the jargon botanical definition with the everyday culinary usage.

The US court case is useful because the justices were testing the normal (non-dictionary) definition of fruit. They asked industry-insiders questions such as, "Have you ever heard tomato described as a fruit?" Meanwhile our definition of a culinary fruit is pathetic. (Sweet or not sweet produce of a specific plant) The best definition I have heard is, "If you serve it with jelly (US Jello) and custard then it's a fruit." Perhaps we can make up a better definition and then add some inevitable exceptions. OrewaTel (talk) 12:13, 23 December 2023 (UTC)