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He identified himself as a Ukrainian. We read it from his data, filled in by himself. And that's all. Why do we need the opinions of modern scientists about his nationality, especially after centuries of appropriation of Ukrainian culture by the Russians? Why can a Russian administrator deny the valid rules of Wikipedia? And if it is so important for him to talk about citizenship (not nationality!) he can write "Ukrainian artist who was of Ukrainian and Polish origin and was a citizen of the Russian Empire, Ukraine and the Soviet Union", but not "Russian artist". However, I do not know of any examples where citizenship indicates the identification of a person. Belcher.Jr (talk) 10:24, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, but we must define a person's nationality first of all in terms of self-identification. Does it come from the Wikipedia rules? Belcher.Jr (talk) 10:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FYI I am Dutch. At this moment, Ukrainian trolls escalated the situation to the point that every user in good standing who sees their edits just reverts them on sight. Ymblanter (talk) 10:42, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your language shows your origin and therefore your bias towards the subject of discussion. Even in 2021, there were only 18% of them. Most of them are Russians. Belcher.Jr (talk) 10:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you see this t/p? Every week or two someone demands the change of Malewicz's nationality to Ukrainian, it's always answered the same way: provide sources, show its not a fringe view. Do you really think that one more post about the same topic will change anything? I'm not calling you a troll, but I understand why some may think that such a behaviour is close to trolling. Marcelus (talk) 10:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your sources pretty much say that Ukraine considers Malevich to be a Ukrainian artist (and insists he is spelled as Malevych). We know that. The Ukrainian Wikipedia understandably states this as well. You are also not the first person to make this argument. Ymblanter (talk) 11:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not directed at you. It’s answer for Marcellus. You have a political bias and a clear conflict of interest. therefore, discussing this topic with you is not interesting to me and is contradictory from the point of view of Wikipedia's rules. And you also offended me Belcher.Jr (talk) 11:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So, do I understand correctly that you ignore my sources and arguments, and agree with his subjective statements and manipulations, and also do not see the bias and political involvement of this user, which can affect the outcome of the discussion? Belcher.Jr (talk) 13:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this: Your sources pretty much say that Ukraine considers Malevich to be a Ukrainian artist (and insists he is spelled as Malevych). We know that. The Ukrainian Wikipedia understandably states this as well. You are also not the first person to make this argument.Marcelus (talk) 13:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, can we then put it on the page that he identified himself as a Ukrainian and was born in Ukraine, but he also had citizenship of the Russian Empire and lived during the Posi occupation, so he is also considered Russian. Isn't this a fair interpretation given the sources and history, and not the manipulations of the Russian PSYOP? Belcher.Jr (talk) 13:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I heard you. I am sorry that I and my sources could not convince you. Perhaps it will take time for the truth to prevail and everything to fall into place. Belcher.Jr (talk) 14:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The same can be said if you substitute "Ukraine" with "Russia" in your reply. So why do russian sources have priority over Ukrainian ones? UApatriot69 (talk) 11:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The majority of which went on to create the Kyiv Independent. I think you’ll be surprised to see their take on this issue. You yourself have confirmed that they are credible.
Do we actually have a citation for the infobox claim that between 1917 and 1922 he was a Ukrainian national? If I read the article, it does not seem to say that he has been in Ukraine during this period. Immight be wrong on this one though and I do not currently have access to good literature.--Ymblanter (talk) 01:09, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He saw and identified himself as a Ukrainian.(He talked about it himself) He saw himself as Ukrainian and he was born in the territory of Ukraine now. Russia is changing historical facts and it is not ok just to take lies as it is. You will be learning false facts because of this and become more uneducated instead of educating yourself as you expect from Wiki. It would be better for everyone if it was changed. Diana.demelko (talk) 04:01, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, it would only be better for Ukrainian propaganda. For everybody else this would be disinformation and cultural appropriation. Ymblanter (talk) 07:23, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is knowing truth is being disinformation?How can stating TRUE facts can play into propaganda? Kazimir stated he was Ukrainian not even Polish so why call him Russian if he had nothing to do with them by blood and mentality? I would recommend reading about propaganda and especially how Russia is using it. A person who knows what propaganda means and who has a little bit of basic knowledge would know that telling FACTS can not be bad not propaganda. It's like stating Shakespeare is a USA artist. Historical facts are not propaganda while lying about someone being of a different nationality helps propaganda (Russian propaganda in this case). Lying to make someone else's culture "better" that is propaganda. This website is for knowledge and facts. Diana.demelko (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Diana.demelko, I think we all know how propaganda works. I haven't looked at the article or its sourcing, but if you are going to argue this point you will need to present actual evidence. You can say he saw himself as Ukrainian, but Wikipedia needs sourcing. Drmies (talk) 20:26, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I read through it, and read a few of the sources, I think that the article represents the matter and the consensus pretty fairly. So the Met went back and forth on Aivazovsky and now has something like what our article has; the Stedelijk went a step further with “born in Ukraine to parents of Polish origin", but that's actually already in the lead. So, no, I see no reason to change what we have. What all this makes clear of course is that the 19th-c disease of nationalism still rages, but that's not something we're going to fix on this talk page. Ymblanter, let's go to Amsterdam, you and me, and we'll see just how much Malevich is in the Stedelijk. We'll rent bikes and eat fries too, of course. Drmies (talk) 20:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I had no idea you lived in the motherland, or maybe I forgot. I appreciate your contribution to our intellectual GDP. Drmies (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Kazimir Severinovich Malevich[nb 1] (23 February [O.S. 11 February] 1879[1] – 15 May 1935) was a Ukrainian avant-garde[nb 2] artist and art theorist, whose pioneering work and writing influenced the development of abstract art in the 20th century.[2][3][4][5] He was born in Kyiv, Ukraine, to an ethnic Polish family. His concept of Suprematism sought to develop a form of expression that moved as far as possible from the world of natural forms (objectivity) and subject matter in order to access "the supremacy of pure feeling"[6] and spirituality.[7][8] Malevich was a founder of the artists collective UNOVIS and his work has been variously associated with the Ukrainian avant-garde, and he was a central figure in the history of modern art in Central and Eastern Europe more broadly.[9][10] Irynatokarchuk (talk) 03:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Malevych was born and studied in Ukraine. Could you please change the bit where it is said that he is a Russian artist and write that he is a Ukrainian artist? 148.252.141.124 (talk) 17:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 
Done Corrected to reflect the title in the linked article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:52, 27 October 2024 (UTC)