Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Linked list/archive1
Quite comprehensive. Even has images to explain things! - Ta bu shi da yu 08:29, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Object. No references. Johnleemk | Talk 09:35, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- What references can we provide though? I know that if I'd written that article I'd have just taken it out of my head because I learned it so long ago. Still, if anyone knows of any authoritative references, we should be able to add these without any problems. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:09, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Where you learned it from would be a good start. :-p After all, surely you didn't invent the code out of thin air did you? That's original research. You need to reference a good book on C, Visual Basic, etc. Johnleemk | Talk 11:25, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- There are now references. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:11, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Where you learned it from would be a good start. :-p After all, surely you didn't invent the code out of thin air did you? That's original research. You need to reference a good book on C, Visual Basic, etc. Johnleemk | Talk 11:25, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- What references can we provide though? I know that if I'd written that article I'd have just taken it out of my head because I learned it so long ago. Still, if anyone knows of any authoritative references, we should be able to add these without any problems. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:09, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Object (for now). Article reads like it could use some reorganization. Also, the Visual Basic example in the middle doesn't jibe with the use of pseudocode in the rest of the article (excepting the "language support" C example). --FOo 15:08, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- The original author has corrected this. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:11, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- The reason the VB code is in the middle of the article is because the VB code explains how languages that don't really have a strong pointer/reference section can still do linked lists. Heck, I'd put in a COBOL one I did ages ago at TAFE when challenged that it couldn't do that. Not that I admit to using COBOL... :P So I understand why this bit got reverted back from Wikicode to VB code. Ta bu shi da yu 10:13, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Object for now. really seems that 90% of this article is JUST CODE. I think articles which are 90% example with minimal else, Who invented the idea of a linked list etc... doesnt belong on FAC yet. (as a side note I personally think any page which is mostly code should be non listable) and treated just like list of X articles.While I still feel there is a lot of code, it is now broken up and suits the article. In its current form I find this article both informational and clear, whereas when it was mostly code I easily got bored with it. So good job folks. SUPPORT Alkivar 22:54, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)- That's a good point. The history of the linked list would be interesting. I should be able to find some info on this. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:13, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Information was found and added. Also, a linked list is mostly code. The descriptions are fine, so I don't see how your objection that it's "90% code" is actionable. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:11, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- OK, I did a count of the amount of words in the article that are code. There are about 950 (maybe out by one or two words). There are about 4,300 words in the entire article now I've added some info on the history of the linked list. That's acually about only 22% of the article that is code! So, not 90% code. :-) Ta bu shi da yu 07:23, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Object. My, you like to quarrel with objections. First, the above objection is entirely actionable. You would simply remove the code, an action. It is debatable whether that is better, but it is actionable. It does seem that the article is dominated by code, even if by word count it is 22%. It takes up much more than 22% of the column inches. 2) You complained you didn't know what references to add and now the article has 5 only four days later. Can you honestly confirm that all of them were used to add or validate material in the article? 3) The lead section is very short. It could stand to be simplified especially in a first paragraph entirely aimed at non programmers, then carry more detailed information. The terms used should be explained inline especially in a lead section. The intro (and in fact the article) should explain why linked lists are important and generally what they are for and what their advantages are. The article has very little of this and the lead section has practically none. - Taxman 14:14, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
- Taxman, I got those references from the external links the article already had. You'll also notice I added additional information I got from elsewhere, so that should explain some additional references. So please don't imply that I added them without knowing where the information came from. That's quite unfair. For what it's worth, I've been talking to the original author and he's an old computer dog that was taught how to do linked lists when he first stated computing, so that will explain the lack of references, though he added links so I suppose he used them to clarify stuff. Also note that I didn't create the original article!!!! The lead section is pretty short, so I'll try to improve this. The reason that linked lists are important is a good point, so I'll try to improve this also.
- Its not about knowing where the information came from, its about actually using the material in the references to add or fact check the material in the article. That is hard to do in 4 days, but certainly possible. It is just important to know that you did that, so that is why I am emphasizing it so much. As to the rest, please do work on those. - Taxman 20:50, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
- With regards to the comment that the article is dominated by code, well, I must respectfully disagree. Exactly how are you going to write an article about a programming issue without using any code? Heck, it's wikicode, a form of pseudocode. My take on this issue: it's sort of like creating an article about a mathematics topic without including any formulas or proofs. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Well I can think of a good example. Mckusick's design and implementation series about the Berkely software distribution is well less than 1% code, and discusses the code and algorithms in depth. It is a very well regarded series of books, and is also very well referenced by the way.
- P.S. sorry if I look like I'm arguing to cause problems. That's not my intention. I'm sometimes a little vigorous in my responses. Sorry if that has caused offense. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:27, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Just keep that vigor on implementing the suggestions and we'll be all set. - Taxman 20:50, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
- Taxman, I got those references from the external links the article already had. You'll also notice I added additional information I got from elsewhere, so that should explain some additional references. So please don't imply that I added them without knowing where the information came from. That's quite unfair. For what it's worth, I've been talking to the original author and he's an old computer dog that was taught how to do linked lists when he first stated computing, so that will explain the lack of references, though he added links so I suppose he used them to clarify stuff. Also note that I didn't create the original article!!!! The lead section is pretty short, so I'll try to improve this. The reason that linked lists are important is a good point, so I'll try to improve this also.
- Object. My, you like to quarrel with objections. First, the above objection is entirely actionable. You would simply remove the code, an action. It is debatable whether that is better, but it is actionable. It does seem that the article is dominated by code, even if by word count it is 22%. It takes up much more than 22% of the column inches. 2) You complained you didn't know what references to add and now the article has 5 only four days later. Can you honestly confirm that all of them were used to add or validate material in the article? 3) The lead section is very short. It could stand to be simplified especially in a first paragraph entirely aimed at non programmers, then carry more detailed information. The terms used should be explained inline especially in a lead section. The intro (and in fact the article) should explain why linked lists are important and generally what they are for and what their advantages are. The article has very little of this and the lead section has practically none. - Taxman 14:14, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
- OK, I did a count of the amount of words in the article that are code. There are about 950 (maybe out by one or two words). There are about 4,300 words in the entire article now I've added some info on the history of the linked list. That's acually about only 22% of the article that is code! So, not 90% code. :-) Ta bu shi da yu 07:23, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Information was found and added. Also, a linked list is mostly code. The descriptions are fine, so I don't see how your objection that it's "90% code" is actionable. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:11, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- That's a good point. The history of the linked list would be interesting. I should be able to find some info on this. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:13, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how I missed this whole discussion, but I wrote a lot of the article, including most of the code (I agree there is a bit too much), and the reason there aren't references is because I wrote from my head, having, like most programmers, internalized the concepts of linked lists long ago (this doesn't mean it's original research; I didn't invent them or anything). I could add some references to related material, such as the CLRS section, but this wasn't actually a source. Honestly I think that outside of advantages and disadvantages, very little can be said of linked lists in prose, because they are so basic; they are to computer science as cave-painting is to art, with no one originator or recorded history. Indeed, anyone who claimed credit for them would look rather silly.
- However, I think demonstrating some of the operations using *diagrams*, in addition to code, would be very neat and elucidating. I plan to do something like this in the near future. I'm apathetic as to whether the article is featured, but I would like it to be as useful as possible. Deco 09:53, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)