Talk:Cardinal virtues

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Plato's four cardinal virtues was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 12 May 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Cardinal virtues. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

In The Republic

- Where are these blatantly listed in the Republic? I'm writing a paper, and I can do the virtues in the city from Book IV, but where do they first appear? It seems to me that Plato refers to having established them in Book I, but it doesn't really look like he did it. Can anyone find the specific parts where he first establishes "courage, wisdom, moderation, justice"? - Darkhawk

A note from an email:

> Aquinas's philosophy, however, was a development of Aristotle's thinking > and not Plato's. It was Aristotle who formulated the virtues of the > Greek polis and disagreed with Plato. Aristotle had a major influence > on Aquinas when his works arrived in the medieval universities of Europe > and he refers to him as the 'Philosopher'.

Perhaps the article can be clarified to refelct this. +sj + 23:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're quite right that Aquinas is most directly indebted to Aristotle, but it is worth remembering that Aristotle is in turn indebted to Plato in various ways and that Aquinas is also indebted to Augustine, who, via the neo-Platonism of Porphyry of Tyros, is indebted to Plato. In any event, Aristotle does not discuss the Cardinal Virtues in any serious way, whereas Plato does, so of this article Plato is, I think, the more relevant. I've added a specific reference to the Protagoras, but it does no more than list the virtues; I seem to recall a more detailed discussion in Republic, but I don't quite remember where it was. Hopefully someone else with a keener memeory can fill that in. RobinJ 19:54, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully disagree with the previous statement: Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, which was very influential when Aristotle was reintroduced to Western philosophy, leans heavily on these virtues. It is not, however, a simple matter of x influences y. Thomas had many sources, which also included Cicero's De officiis. A structured approach is necessary to explain, in a clear manner, the historical development of these virtues. Caedus (talk) 00:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

John Hotham

I haven't reverted the last edit, but I think the tomb is that of the 2nd Baronet. AFCR 09:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Intro Section

The intro section of this article is too long, and contains far too many elements. I placed a cleanup tag at the start of the article. Mmoople (talk) 00:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I removed it. Such tags involving subjective opinions are unnecessary - discussion here on the Talk page is fine. I look forward to reading your edits. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A Merge Suggestion and Other Criticism

These ideas are important enough to the entire western tradition that they shouldn't be left in the hands of people who either don't understand or are unwilling to discuss their full place in that tradition (ie. contemporary Christians).

To start with this entire art, icle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato%27s_four_cardinal_virtues should be included in and lead off this article. If one then wanted to go further one could say a few words about the role of these concepts and of virtue in general in later greco-roman thought, could mention the notion that these four were thought of as interdendent qualities, etc.. I won't bother to do this myself but someone who knows more about editing should definitely at least merge the two pages. I wholeheartedly agree with both the quality and importance scale ratings of this article for philosophy (start & high). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.147.152 (talk) 07:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dante

In Dante's PARADISO, four of the heavenly bodies are associated with the four cardinal Virtues, and Dante sees the souls assigned to them according to which virtue they practiced the most. Wisdom was associated with the sun (sun = light = knowledge), Courage with Mars because of its warlike associations, Justice with Jupiter because it was named for the king of the gods, and Temperance (which Dante identified with ascetism and monasticism) with Saturn, the most remote planet known to Dante. CharlesTheBold (talk) 15:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Forbearance

Isn't the meaning of 'forbearance' closer to 'temperance' than it is to 'courage'? To forbear is to temper your (just) anger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Murray (talk • contribs) 23:51, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

clumsy language

The cardinal virtues comprise a quartet set of virtues ...

I wince. Why not:

The four cardinal virtues recognized in the writings of Classical Antiquity and, along with the theological virtues, also in Christian tradition, are:

—Tamfang (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have cleaned up the lead along these lines, also moving the mention of the theological virtues to the end of the lead. Clean Copy^talk 20:27, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Cardinal virtues & the quadrivium: Perhaps the connection could be clarified?

I've skimmed this article & the article on quadrivium and I was unclear about the connection between the two. Nick-cool. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.163.187 (talk) 04:55, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Courage?

I am born 1950 and brought up catholic with which I never had (serious) problems. We learned the four exercises. But there was no Exercise of courage! Regards.

145.129.136.48 (talk) 15:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The word virtue comes from the Latin virtus which means courage. Its derivation is vir, man (as in virile); thus courage, the virtue of a man.

Nuttyskin (talk) 20:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]