User talk:Dbenbenn/Antifinnugor

well, we'll have to dig up the most blatantly policy-violating edits, I suppose the policies applying would be mostly "no personal attacks" and "cite your sources". But I am afraid the case is mostly do to stubborness and complete inability to engage in a discussion or even listen to people. I am afraid we have no policy requiring a minimal level of intelligence. dab (ᛏ) 09:31, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm going to start a scratch list here. One challenge is AFU's habit of copying his and others' text all over the place. Anyway, this is still in progress.

• Insults to Pasquale and Nyenyec: [1],[2]
• Calling Hippophaë a terrorist: [3]
• Belittling Mark Dingemanse and Mustafaa: [4],[5]
• Harassing Dbachmann: [6],[7] (particularly the last line),[8] (the last line)

Weaker examples: [9],[10] (listing Finno-Ugric languages on Pages needing attention)

Dbenbenn 00:22, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with his edits, only the unscientific slant to the article and his completely political perspective on a linguistic topic. The basic policy violation (it seems to me) is that he's oblivious to the concept of consensus editing, not to mention civil discussion. Wyss 00:40, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The subject's edit summaries should not be overlooked. Also, various attempts at Dispute resolution and various explanations of Wikipedia policies, all to no avail, could be mentioned. A start, mostly focusing on my (MD) own attemps (there are lots more):

• [11] and the reply at [12] (User:Derek Ross) (no personal attacks) (directed to anon = subject not yet being registered)
• [13] and the reply at [14] (User:Mark Dingemanse) (cite sources)
• [15] and the reply at [16] (User:Mark Dingemanse) (cite sources)
• [17] and the reply at [18] (User:Mark Dingemanse) (cite sources)
• [19] and the reply at [20] (User:Mark Dingemanse) (no personal attacks)

Especially the subject's strategy to systematically beat about the bush is very apparent.

• [21] and the reply at [22] (User:Mark Dingemanse) {helping to provide sources; pointing to cite sources & be cooperative) (subject
• [23] and [24] and the reply at [25] (User:Tuomas and User:Dbachmann) (be cooperative) (subject blames others for own faults and tries to shift burden of proof; ignores valid points)
• [26] and the reply at [27] (User:Mark Dingemanse) (be cooperative) (subject starts to accuse others of his own faults)
• [28] and the reply at [29] (User:Tuomas) (be cooperative/verifiability/cite sources) (subject ignores point and repeats own mantra)
• [30] (User:Nyenyec) (3RR) (no answer yet)

Thanks for doing this unpleasant job, Dbenbenn. I think this is easily enough material for an RfC, and I think we should open one now. We can add that he is known for similar behaviour on the Hungarian WP. We also need to show that decent effort was made to sort it out with him, and that he was duly warned that he is in violation of policy. This will also be easy. We have been very patient with him, asked him countless times to provide references ("Wikipedia:Cite your sources"), and basically given him a free linguistics course. In fact we have spent far more time with explaining trivial points to him than should be expected. If the RfC does no other good than to reassure us we have the community behind us, it will be worthwhile. Because I want to remain absolutely clear that this is not my private edit war, nor the private edit war of a small group of editors. I was not editing the FU article before afu showed up, and started watching it basically to help revert pov edits. Thanks again for collecting this material. (here is the latest accusation against me: [31], [32] (you may want to help turn Critique of Finno-Ugric and Uralic language groups back into a redirect) — please open the RfC, I will sign it immediately. dab (ᛏ) 11:22, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Please let me me know when the RfC goes live, then I will sign too. I have removed all pages related to this affair from my watchlist, since I don't want to waste another minute of my wikitime upon it. — mark ✎ 16:34, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

here is another gem [33]! dab (ᛏ) 13:02, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You can count me in as well.--Wiglaf 16:42, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That's interesting. Bachman has the right to hate, revert, redirect and defamate, hipo and mustafa have the right to revert each word antifunnugor wrote (with and without ironic comments), dingemanse and wiglaf have the right to insult, and antifinnugor has no rights at all. We are all all equal, but some are more equal, right? Please add this to your collection. Your link list looks as a KGB collection. Congratulations. Do you think, it is legal? Antifinnugor 16:46, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, here's a concrete policy violation. Antifinnugor has reverted Critique of Finno-Ugric and Uralic language groups five times in less than four hours, and I don't get the impression he's planning to stop anytime soon. Isn't that a blocking offence? Is anybody an admin out there?--Bishonen | Talk 20:08, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What is his motivation? Antifinnugor 06:54, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I summarized the style and the behaviour of the promoters of finnougrism on my user page. You may read that. Antifinnugor 09:17, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

he has been blocked for 12 hours for that. Which will of course solve nothing, but I hope he will get the hint that the rules are not there for nothing. See WP:AN. Your draft looks fine, Dbenbenn, thank you for going to the trouble. dab (ᛏ) 19:46, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

AFU before registering & AFU admitting political agenda

The history of AFU before registering seems to be relevant too.

IP's that have been used to insert Antifinnugor's criticism into various articles (there might be some more):

• 217.235.204.95 (contribs, talk)
• 217.235.207.56 (contribs, talk)
• 217.235.208.116 (contribs, talk)
• 130.119.248.11 (contribs, talk)

the 217.* IP's are German dialups. the 130.* IP is in the UK and was only used on 9 Nov. Note that user is also active on German WP. dab (ᛏ) 10:33, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Some diffs:

• [34] 217.235.204.95 is kindly welcomed to Wikipedia, asked to register, and provided with links to some help pages and policies (November 16, User:Mark Dingemanse.
• [35] 217.235.204.95 or 'af' is asked to register and to sign comments (November 16, User:Mark Dingemanse)
• [36] Subject is asked to cite sources and to register and sign comments (November 17, User:Node ue)
• [37] User is registered and starts to sign his comments; refuses to provide sources.

Also, AFU has admitted that he has a political agenda. I think this is very relevant, only I couldn't find the diffs. I think there might be something at Wiglaf's or Wyss's talk page; but also earlier. However, I had promised myself to not devote any more wikitime to this matter... — mark ✎ 22:07, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Political agenda

• See e.g. the instructive exchange at User_talk:Wyss#Cranky_is_jargon_for_Not_Peer-Reviewed.

Thanks

Thanks for the link, Dbenbenn. No, of course I don't consider it spam!--Bishonen | Talk 23:06, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)