Talk:Grape seed oil

I suffer because of blurred terminology...Should first things not be first, "What ..(the subject under discussion is),should be first and foremost be defined, we should say what we are we talking about...before thundering away and describe all sorts of detail, I humbly suggest (and beg) that the DEFINITION must ALWAYS the introductoryline, meaning the subject must initially be circumscribed. I still don't know whether the term "grapeseed" and "grapeseedextract is the same...

Two suggestions: I would explain the "Treatment" section better - are these folk remedies? Proven medical benefits? How are they applied? - and I would rearrange the sections, so that "Treatment" and "Medical Information" are together, and "Modern Uses" is listed first. Otherwise, very good stuff. Scooter 00:03, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)

factual accuracy questioned

i agree with Securiger below. i'm very worried about much of the so-called facts on this page too.it's not cited and many other sources contradict the info mentioned here.i labelled dubious sentences where appropriate and asked for some sources to prove the info there.my role here?i added a link that supports the little (but confirmed) info i providedGrandia01 (talk) 00:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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I am very concerned about this page - especially as it seems to be in Google's number two spot for "grape seed oil" AND medical

I arrived by a round-about route and know very little about the subject, but it sounded so much like an "infomercial" from the grape seed oil industry that I felt obliged to do a bit of Googling. Some of the medical claims do not seem to be supported in any medical references, although they are widely echoed on vendors' web sites. For example, the oligomeric proanthocyanidins (OPC) referred to are indeed found in grape seeds (but mainly in the skins), and are indeed considered valuable in the treatment of several conditions of the veins. However OPCs are polar molecules that are practically insoluble in nonpolar oil, so contrary to popular myth there isn't any OPC in grape seed oil! [1] If you want grape OPCs, viable sources include fresh grapes, grape seed extract, grape juice, and red wine; in fact anything except the oil.

Furthermore several of the other claimed medical uses just do not seem to be supported at all, either for GSO or GSE.[2] Breast cancer, for example: the closest to a supportive statement that I could find on any vaguely medical looking web site was on a few "complementary health" sites that recommended various antioxidants, including OPCs, to help prevent cancer. Even if GSO contained OPCs this is speculative - albeit a reasonable speculation - and contains nothing at all about treating the cancer after it has occurred. (Antioxidants prevent cancer by absorbing free radicals before they can attack DNA. Logically there is no reason why a material which works this way, would have any effect at all on the cancer after it was formed, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it does so.) Yet the article is written in such a way as to give the impression that it is standard medical practice to treat breast cancer with GSO.

However, I acknowledge that I am no expert in this area. Would someone who is please examine this article and determine if it is valid, or is Wikipedia being used to hawk snake oil?

Once we have sorted fact from fiction, we can start refactoring it; as Scooter points out, the article is also rather incoherent (e.g. 1/4 of the "Cooking" section is actually further medical claims). Securiger 10:35, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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The following has been removed from the article pending fact-checking:

BEGIN

Treatment for

Atherosclerosis, breast cancer, Constipation, hair disorders, hypercholesterolemia, hypertension, lung cancer, macular degeneration, pancreatitis, varicose veins.

Also softens dry skin.

Studies have shown that grape seed-derived oligomeric proanthrocyanidins (OPC) prevents cardiovascular disease and can counteract the negative effects of high cholesterol on the heart and blood vessels. OPC's are a set of bioflavonoid complexes that perform as free radical scavengers in the human body. These OPCs can help protect against the effects of internal and environmental stresses (that is, cigarette smoking, pollution, and suporting normal body metabolic processes). The effects are; depressing blood fat, emolliating blood vessels, lowering blood pressure, preventing blood vessel scleroses, dropping blood viscidity and preventing thrombus formation (a type of platelet clot).

END -- WormRunner 05:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've NPOV'd the latter paragraph above and parked it at Oligomeric proanthrocyanidin. Mkweise 05:26, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Not healthy for frying?

There are a number of website "health" newsletters that claim GSO is unhealthy as a frying oil. I see nothing on the talk page about that. Hopefully someone will address it.ChicagoLarry (talk) 22:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Nash and JACC article?

I can't find the paper in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology that this article cites. The number "925-116" in the citation doesn't make sense to me. No 1993 article in the JACC starts on page 925 or page 116. Google for several variations on the article title reveals nothing. Some Google hits have citations like "J Am Coll Cardiol 1993;21:318-20", but again, no such article exists. See for yourself. [3]

Medline and JACC searches for Nash DT, Nash SD, Grant WD, "grape seed", "grapeseed", and combinations of those terms reveal no articles fitting the citation. I found one Web page that cites something believable: Nash DT, Nash SD, Grant WD. Grapeseed oil, a natural agent which raises serum HDL-C levels. Presented at the American College of Cardiology 42nd Annual Scientific Session, Mar 15, 1993, Anaheim, Calif

I have a feeling that I'll find the abstract of the presentation here: 42nd Annual Scientific Sessions. Anaheim, California, March 14-18, 1993. Abstracts. Journal of the American College of Cardiology. 21(2 Suppl A):1A-578A, 1993 Feb.

Unfortunately, JACC doesn't have supplements from that far back online. I'm deleting the reference and modifying the text appropriately until I can get to the library.

Significant deleted text follows:

1. D.T. Nash, S.D. Nash, State University of New York Health Science Center at Syracuse, W.D. Grant, Department of Family Medicine, State University of New York Health Science Center at Syracuse, Syracuse, New York: Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 925-116 Grapeseed Oil, A natural Agent Which Raises Serum HDL levels, 1993.

--Officiallyover 07:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I just wrote to the editor who originally put in this reference and asked him/her to check it. Badagnani 08:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Grapeseed Oil As Major Fat Source

Grapeseed oil appears to be very high in omega-6 while low in omega-3. Apparently this is a common problem with the American diet already, and that such an imbalance may cause immune system depression, along with weight gain. Any verification of this? Jadxia 18:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have had a great deal of trouble finding out if the edible grape seed oil is blended. Any information about this is crucial, as it means we aren't consuming the pure oil. I feel this needs clarifying in the future. "The best ideas are common property." 09:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

That's usually what "virgin" and "extra virgin" mean - i.e. contains no blended/refined oil (and is therefore 100%). At least, everywhere else except the US it seems. See Olive oil grades Jon (talk) 09:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

References

I've had a go at fleshing out the refs. The Nash study seems unpublished, but should be in their proceedings (seminar presentation). Jon (talk) 11:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

How long has it been used?

How long has grapeseed oil been used (particularly for cooking), and what is the historical evidence for this use? Badagnani (talk) 01:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Omega-3

Yes it is true, Grapeseed oil is low in Omega-3 fatty acids so it will not supply these to the skin topically or orally to the body. The lack of Omega-3 in our diets is a problem. Omega-3 fatty acids stimulate the manufacture of anti-inflammatory cytokines in the body, which reduca the chance of joint inflammation and inflammation in arteries which can reduce circulation (The so called stroke). Grapeseed oil with a bright green color indicates to me though, that it may have some polyphenol in it, but not as much as from bright red colored skins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.102.206 (talk) 15:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated Claims

There seem to be a lot of unsubstantiated claims in this article, some bordering on bollocks. Can we have a go at either finding citations or removing the claims? Cheers. Jon (talk) 02:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Well I seem to be talking to myself, but in case any visiting editors are interested, I think six months is ample time for editors to provide citations for their claims. Since in this time no such citations have appeared (indeed, more unsubstantiated claims have appeared) I have removed them and refactored the article. Echoing folks above, It concerned me that this article is one of the main Google links to come up and yet it is full of health claims with no supporting evidence. Jon (talk) 09:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with you that there is a lot of ambiguity in this article, and comments to this effect have been going on for years without achieving anything... This is a pitifully short article as Grapeseed Oil is one of the most popular oils for use in massage and aromatherapy, and is a major ingredient in many cosmetic preparations. However, as often happens, the supposed benefits of ingesting this oil get mixed up with the benefits for external application. Then someone gets carried away with extolling the virtues of grapeseed extract that is a quite different product. The info under 'Potential Medical Benefits' is over-enthusiastic, but could be worse. But it is relevant in this article... I'll come back and re-write the article one day if I have time! Cjsunbird (talk) 16:18, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi! Cheers for the feedback. I'm a bit busy this month but perhaps we can work on the cosmetics angle and include references. Jon (talk) 13:21, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

History of grape seed oil?

I looked online for info on the history of this oil, but only found vague statements such as "has been known since ancient times". Perhaps someone is able to dig deeper, beyond the commercial results in the first few pages of a Google search for history grape seed oil. --Chriswaterguy talk 19:00, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I second that - Longus (Daphnis and Chloe) ca 200AD talks of using a stone to crush small clusters and it's ambiguous whether he means because treading clusters of small grapes with the feet doesn't get the juice out or, as Thornley translated in 1657, to crush the grape-stones. I've seen references to sesame oil (cheaper than olive oil and mainly used for lamps in Egypt) in ancient papyri, but not to grape-seed oil.

Unsourced/Unsubstantiated claims (the 2017 summary)

I refer the honourable future contributor(s) to the discussion c. 2009 entitled Unsubstantiated Claims, above. Please refrain from just adding any old codswallop you read off the back of a bottle of moisturiser into this encyclopaedia article, and if you are making claims about supposed skin- or other health-related benefits, please make sure you have an appropriate reference (and that it isn't a link to a manufacturer's online brochure). Jon (talk) 06:41, 24 July 2017 (UTC)