Talk:Predator (film)

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Guns and (Shea) Butter: An Oral History of 'Predator'

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Not Delta Force

I removed the bit about Dutch and his men being Delta Force. They are not US military in the film; the novel makes it clear they are in fact private military contractors occasionally employed by the US army. Hints of this remain in the film, most obviously the fact that Dutch and his team apparently have the option to pick and choose operations at will, which serving personnel would never be able to do - if they were enlisted, they would simply have to follow orders regardless of whether they wanted to or not. This alone proves they aren't military personnel, special forces or otherwise.--Leigh Burne (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very good point. They are operating by choice rather than orders. The only evidence that suggested they were military is Dutch's rank of "Major" but he would still be called that in this scenario even if he retired. Jason Quinn (talk) 08:21, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just a related follow-up: they are not Special Forces either as the article said prior to my recent cleanup. The skinned men hanging inside the helicopter were Special Forces (because called "Green Berets" in the film) but the film gave no evidence that Dutch and his team are Special Forces. They might have been and it would make sense but there is no evidence for it. Jason Quinn (talk) 18:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Predator 2 established that Dutch's team were active Special Forces personnel though, so this is conflicting information. Let's not even forget the fact that Dutch referred to Mac by his military rank at one point. Dibol (talk) 08:21, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Does a single, possibly erroneous line of dialogue in a sequel really overrule something that is abundantly clear in the first movie?

Not to mention all Keyes actually says is that they were "an elite special forces crew", which is fairly vague and open to interpretation. Likewise, the referring to each other by rank could merely be honorific, or simply an indication that Dutch retained everybody's military ranks for leadership purposes.--Leigh Burne (talk) 14:19, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was unaware that Predator 2 said they were Special Forces. Is the exact scene on Youtube? Since Dutch's team is clearly not active military, calling them Special Forces even if they once were is questionable or misleading at best and simply wrong at worst. So I think is is obvious we should avoid labeling them as such here. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not (active) Special Forces either

It is clear they are a paramilitary group, not a military one. Dutch is Army Airborne but the film nor script do not establish him as Special Forces. He might have been but maybe not too. Jason Quinn (talk) 04:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brazil

It took a bit of effort but I found the location for the map that General Phillips shows Dutch. The map is of the Chapada das Mangabeiras area in Brazil (easily seen in-full on the zoomed-out shot and in-part in the zoomed-in shot as it is in the largest font on the map) centered on about 10°13′S 44°38′W / 10.217°S 44.633°W / -10.217; -44.633. The missing helicopter seems to have gone down in the Parnaguá municipality. The key information I used to crack it was the municipality of Xique-Xique which can be seen to be located on the Rio São Francisco in the lower right portion of the zoomed map shown in the film.

Also interesting are the FIR/UIR lines on the map. One is the RECIFE FIR/UIR, which is Brazilan, and the adjacent one says BELEM FIR/UIR. Jason Quinn (talk) 11:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good find. But the map must be a goof, or the production team just didn't care enough to make one for the movie instead of just reusing an existing one. There's no country border nearby for the group to escape to, and the guerilleros were speaking Spanish (as does Anna) instead of Brazil's Portuguese. For me this is supposed to be situated in Central America.--176.199.18.119 (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They just didn't care. In 1987, nobody imagined crystal-clear pausing for home viewership. Nor could they have imagined how easy it would become for viewers to double-check this kind of stuff. Brazil itself has nothing to do with the movie except for the fact that the map they thought that looked best on camera happened to be of Brazilian territory. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch and Dillon's past

I recently removed some phrases implying that Dutch and Dillon were in Vietnam because I believed the film did not support this. Dillon does say at the 9:00 mark while in the chopper, "I was in '72, north of Huế. Me and Dutch both got one." while holding an Airborne zippo lighter. This dialogue is not in the script, which just says "Dillon seems comfortable with the men, showing Ramirez a battered CIGARETTE LIGHTER from a famed commando unit from the past." Those statements could be reinserted. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:45, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I readded them. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:53, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General Philips

Just for future reference, General Philips is a Major General (two stars on hat and collar). Major Generals are addressed as "General" as in the film ~~and are the highest peace time ranking~~. He's wearing an 82nd Airborne Division patch with Airborne tab on his right shoulder (visible during opening scenes). Presumably, he is supposed to be the general of the 82nd Division.

In the helicopter, Dillon says that he and Dutch got Airborne lighters, so they too were in the Airborne Division also likely the 82nd which would explain why Dutch has respect for Philips who would have likely been one of Dutch and Dillon's superiors at the time. The 82nd Airborne is also based out of Fort Bragg which is consistent with how Dutch knew the "Green Berets out of Fort Bragg".

3rd award Combat Infantryman Badge (on left chest)

Visible at the end of the film, while he's in the helicopter, Philips can be seen wearing a 3rd award (notice the two stars above) Combat Infantryman Badge, which is awarded for action in Vietnam. Below this he's also wearing an Airborne master parachutist badge but it's very difficult to discern unless you pause an high-res copy right at the moment he appears in the helicopter.

Also visible on his left shoulder is this combination of a "Special Forces" tab with a shield patch of horse with a lightning bolt. According to the link the shield patch is a "US Army 1st Special Operations Command (Airborne) (1st SOCOM) patch". But 1st Special Operations command is a new thing according to our article for that it was established only recently, much after the film. So there's some history there that I don't yet know (and our article ignores). They were apparently also active in the Vietnam War (see commons:Category:1st Special Forces Group in the Vietnam War), which would have been Philips' case. Jason Quinn (talk) 09:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC) (Struck erroneous claim Jason Quinn (talk) 01:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC))[reply]

He has something else above his name that looks like this patch but that's from a different division. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, this might might sense. So that patch appears to come from the 17th Airborne Division (United States). It however was only active until 1949. It's possible that Philips got his start in the Army in the 17th Airborne. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Useful link to see real MG of the 82nd: List of commanders of 82nd Airborne Division (United States) Jason Quinn (talk) 12:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This video contains a still shot that shows a couple of the actual patches. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: The description on the link is likely in error. The horse and lightning bolt patch appears to belong to the 1st Special Forces Group (United States) which would have been active for Philips, not to 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne), which is a modern thing that took over. So it appears Philips history is 17 Airborne (until 1949) then 1st Special Forces Group, then 82nd Airborne. This time sequence at least makes sense. Philips would have been in the army about 38 to 40 years by the time of the movie, which is actually realistic for a Major General. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's noted in the article but to keep this together: name patch says "Philips" but spelled as "Phillips" in end credits. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Novelization

Val Verde was removed as the setting given in the novelization (@Leigh Burne:) and replaced with Guatemala. Many websites give Val Verde as the novelization's source so I'm wondering if this is correct. Perhaps both are correct. The story takes place in more than one country. During Dutch's initial briefing he's told, "We lost a cabinet minister and his aide from this charming little country". But Dutch asks regarding the location of the downed chopper, "This cabinet minister, does he always travel on the wrong side of the border?" So Dutch's team had to cross a border for their rescue. It's very possible that in the novel, Dutch and his team arrive in Guatemala for the briefing but after the helicopter trip the setting changes to Val Verde for the search for the chopper. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I own the novelisation and it never once mentions Val Verde. The opening briefing is said to take place in “Conta Mana” (a seemingly fictional state), while reading remainder of the action takes place in Guatemala. Leigh Burne (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this information, Leigh Burne. The locations for this movie certainly are a confusing state of affairs. Jason Quinn (talk) 02:33, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some info for Val Verde (fictional country). - wolf 01:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

why???? my warnings are set to keep us here tonight

switch 66.29.210.6 (talk) 03:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]