Talk:Cwmbran

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Cwmbrân

I've always thought that it was Cwmbrân with the circumflex above the 'a' in both Welsh and English, and I'm sure I've seen this on their official road signage. Could we vote to change it? Xxglennxx (talk) 23:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although it's the correct Welsh spelling it's actually quite rare these days to see it spelled with the circumflex, as a quick Google search will show, (although I'm sure you could find a few examples). Cwmbran is in a very anglicised part of Wales. No need to change. ♦ Jongleur¹⁰⁰ ♦ ^talk 08:09, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's rare - new signs erected in and around Cwmbrân are spelt with the circumflex, and only has one translation instead of the bilingual, as it doesn't need a translation (no-one writes "Valley of the Crow," ha). Google will find more hits for Cwmbran than Cwmbrân because people don't bother tapping the 'â' in. Abertyleri is in a very Anglicised area of Wales, yet we still have Abertillery and Abertyleri. Could we at least take a vote on it before you final-decide it? Xxglennxx (talk) 15:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think you've just scored an own goal there. Abertyleri in Welsh, Abertillery in English. Cwmbrân in Welsh, Cwmbran in English. This is the English Wikipedia in which Abertyleri redirects to Abertillery. You are quite welcome to use the circumflex accent in the Welsh edition. ♦ Jongleur¹⁰⁰ ♦ ^talk 15:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cwmbran council [1] doesn't use the circumflex and neither does the BBC [2] ♦ Jongleur¹⁰⁰ ♦ ^talk 15:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The point I was trying to make is that Cwmbrân isn't anglecised, where as Abertillery (of Abertyleri) has been. But I suppose if the council doesn't use it (but then why is it on their signs as only Cwmbrân? Hm), then it should stay as Cwmbran here. Xxglennxx (talk) 19:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cwmbrân is the spelling used on the signs at the town's railway station. --Picapica (talk) 16:52, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes please. There is a circumflex on the 'a'. It is wrong without it. Please change it. (I grew up in this area.) Jakeqz (talk) 01:15, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's also the spelling on road sings around the area. As it can be seen here, the council is only using the Welsh version. I think the article's name should be changed to reflect this. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 03:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would support a move from

Cwmbran (Welsh: Cwmbrân) /kʊmˈbrɑːn/ is a new town in Wales...

to

Cwmbrân /kʊmˈbrɑːn/ (also spelled Cwmbran) is a new town in Wales...

There isn't really an anglicized version of Cwmbrân (as there is in the case of, say, "Cardiff" from "Caerdydd") – it's simply that it has been common practice in written English to ignore diacritics (and we should, of course, acknowledge that fact in the Wikipedia entry). It remains true, nevertheless, that the new town created in 1949 was given a Welsh name – Cwmbrân – the correct spelling of which is now, with advances in typography, probably the form most frequently to be seen in official usage. --Picapica (talk) 16:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I support the move, and suggestions suggested. Also, where did you find the information on the original naming of the town? -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 19:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: A search of Enwau Cymru in English of Cwmbran (without the circumflex) will also turn out "Cwmbrân" as the correct place name, showing that 'all forms' include Cwmbrân, Cwmbran, and Cwm Bran. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 19:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shall we move the article if there's no objection? -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 21:32, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Following the passing of the 1946 New Towns Act, ministries and county councils were asked to nominate sites. For Wales, the Ministry of Housing and Local Government proposed Church Village and Cwmbrân. The Church Village proposal was vetoed by the Ministry of Power as new housing there would have interfered with plans for the expansion of coalmining in the area; however, Cwmbrân was given the go-ahead in 1949. See here

My point is that, in contrast to Church Village -- which is an English-named community for which there exists a Welsh "translation name", Pentre'r Eglwys -- the new town at Cwmbrân has only ever been called by its Welsh name from the start: not "Crow Valley" or anything similar!

As the BBC says:

"Cwmbrân (valley of the river Brân) was the name given to a new town created in 1949 under the New Towns Act 1946. It took the name of the older village located in the valley Cwm Brân which had developed around tinplate works and forges of the Cwmbran Iron Co."

Whether or not the iron company cared, or 1940s British typewriters and typesetters were capable of easily producing the necessary character, Brân was, and is, the name of the stream running through the valley, and Cwmbrân the name of the community which arose there. It is, by the way, a convention in Welsh toponymy that when the reference is to a natural feature the words are written separately (e.g. Cwm Brân : valley of the Brân); when they refer to a settlement named after that feature the words are joined up (Cwmbrân). Another example: Pont ar Dawe ("bridge on the Tawe": the bridge itself) / Pontardawe (the village that grew up by the bridge).

I will make the move on 1 September unless there are any counter-proposals between now and then. -- Picapica (talk) 17:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fascinating research, Picapica; thankyou! I'd like to learn more about Welsh place names, but don't have the time at the moment. Anyway - I agree with the time scale of the proposed rename. Perhaps that sort of information can be added to the article itself on the history of the town's name, so that someone doesn't come along in the future stating that no-one uses the "Welsh" spelling in English any more? -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 22:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced the redirects so that they are the other way round. I hope that's right! -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 22:29, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Will we need to change other instances of "Cwmbran" to "Cwmbrân", such as Old Cwmbran to Old Cwmbrân? -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 22:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Xxglennxx, sorry I didn't have time to make the page move last night as promised. However, I'm afraid that the way you changed the page title didn't follow the correct procedure for moving pages -- which has, amongst other things, meant the loss of the discussion history. I've tried, without success, to revert your initial change. I think we need the help of an administrator now to put things back to how they were so that we can make the move properly. -- Picapica (talk) 11:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes please. There is a circumflex on the 'â'. It is wrong without it. Please change it. (I grew up in this area.) Jakeqz (talk) 01:18, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ty Canol, and Henllys

In this article Ty Canol and Henllys are not included anywhere, I'll give some basics Both Ty canol and Henllys are private estates, They are located in the south east of cwmbran, they are on the side of the mountain, Twmbarlwm, there are courts/streets in ty canol i can name a few,(they are all named after flowers Bluebell court, Rose court, Celendine court,Daffodill court, thistle court, Heather court, Hawks ridge, Buttercup court and Primrose court, If you want any more details, please use this e-mail address: sfpullin98@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.94.140 (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request Pronunciation

As not everyone speaks Welsh, can we add a pronunciation? 182.170.201.30 (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Picapica (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus for move. Furthermore, Google searches, in particular news and books, clearly show "Cwmbran" to be the more common spelling in English. Favonian (talk) 15:04, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Google is rubbish, as I'm sure you have realized by now. It is Cwmbrân. There is no difference between the spelling in Welsh or English. Please do not base your decisions on what Google says. Google is a commercial enterprise motivated by profit not factual accuracy.

Sorry if I have edited a section you don't want editing, but I grew up in these parts and feel strongly that our placenames are spelt properly. We will forgive you for failing to pronounce them right, but will not forgive you for getting the Wikipedia entries wrong. Please fix it. Jakeqz (talk) 01:25, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide a link to the archived discussion of and vote on the requested move. Your current link is only to Wikipedia policy. Please also remove the reference to what Google searches say: their search results are not NPOV, actually very biased, and have no place here. When you've fixed all that, you may remove my comments from this section. Jakeqz (talk) 01:47, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cwmbran → Cwmbrân – Spelling. Cwmbrân and Cwmbran are both used: however, the first (and official) form is now more to be seen. See also discussion above. -- Picapica (talk) 07:48, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Cwmbran" still seems to be the more common form of the name used in English, and there are web pages with text in both English and Welsh e.g. http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/LeisureAndCulture/SportsClubsAndCentres/Swimming/Publications/SwimProgramme.pdf where "Cwmbrân" is only used for the Welsh form of the name. The arguments about use on road signs and logos are insufficient, as the names are so similar and as "Cwmbrân" can be used in both languages only that form is needed, which reduces the amount of text. Other uses of the name vary - Cwmbran Shopping Centre and Cwmbran RFC have no circumflex, according to their websites, but Cwmbran Town A.F.C. has. Peter E. James (talk) 23:50, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not "Cwmbran" and not "Cwmbrân" still seems to be more common in English is besides the point; 'Cwmbrân' is its official name, and this has already been discussed above and is noted in the article. It's my guess that people have become lazy, which they have, in typing place names with accents. Examples outside Wales are Koln (Cologne) in Germany, Chatau d'Oex (Château-d'Œx) in Switzerland, etc etc. Instead of taking the time and effort, people will Anglicise to the closest name. In Cwmbrân's instance, this had meant loosing its circumflex. You've stated that the names are so similar, so there can be no opposition to the move really. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 00:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Article rename (again)

This is absurd. Why the request was denied is beyond me. If everyone in the world started calling 'Wikipedia' "Wikipaedia" and it became the more common name, would Wikipedia change its name? No, it would continue to use it's original, official name. The article has to be moved - it's not the official name of the new town. There's consensus between active contributors here. As I, and other members have said, the difference is so small, we might as well stick to the official name. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 16:10, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How would you define the "original official name"? Wouldn't that be the name used in the Cwmbran New Town (Designation) Order 1949? Formerip (talk) 19:54, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That was from 1949. Typesetters were struggling after the war. Please get with the programme. Jakeqz (talk) 01:43, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. The article must be renamed to Cwmbrân. That is the name of the place. If Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia, it should at least be accurate. Jakeqz (talk) 01:42, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will do the rename, if no-one objects. Jakeqz (talk) 01:44, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No objection yet... Jakeqz (talk) 02:06, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

It's spelled Cwmbran, per virtually all sourcing. Anyone who wants to open a new move request is welcome to do so. Formerip (talk) 00:02, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No. It's spelt "Cwmbrân". It was laziness of typographers and those in charge of accenting certain letters when making road signs. See BBC. Wikipedia is based on verifiability; this has be verified time and time again. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 10:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Welsh Academy Encyclopedia states that the correct title is Cwmbran and that Cwmbrân is the Welsh name. Even Torfaen Council uses Cwmbran. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:05, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If an author did not concern himself with the linguistic history of a place name, that is not our fault. It's funny that you should mention the Council, as this clearly shows their stance. Whether or not it was not common practice THEM to correctly spell Cwmbrân with it's accent, it IS now. This talk page, the article, and I have provided verifiable information from a number of reputable sources. It shall, therefore, be reverted to reflect the actual, verifiable name - Cwmbrân. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 11:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a Welsh language version of Wikipedia?

Council staff are usually lazy, and don't have keyboards with easy access to accented characters. The French may type "cafe" rather than "café", because it's easier, and everyone will know what they mean. But it doesn't make it right. Jakeqz (talk) 02:24, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's a really informative video on this subject here.

As you can see, signage in Cwmbran sometimes uses the Welsh spelling, but mostly uses the English. You can also hear that "Cwmbran" is pronounced with a short "a" in English (i.e. it is said the way it is spelled in English).

This video could also be a good source for the article, BTW. I did not know that Cwmbran had the first McDonalds in South Wales, for example. Formerip (talk) 13:09, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A Goldie Lookin Chain video cannot be used as verifiability. They are not from Cwmbrân and therefore their accents and linguistic stresses are the same. I, and other contributors, have supplied an ample amount of sources. New signage in Cwmbrân favours the spelling with the circumflex, as can be shown by the newer versions. Please discuss this with sources that can be verified. If not, I shall change it back to due course. -- Xxglennxx (talk • cont.) 22:35, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the editor was making a valid point for GLC being a point of verification, unless you need editors to use "quotation marks" for others to understand sarcasm, irony, etc (or maybe emoticons, "I hear all the kids are using them now"). But I too am a contributor and I too have shown sources that seperate the spellings of Cwmbran in its English, and accepted form, and Cwmbrân in its Welsh form. When Torfaen Council spell Cwmbran on their website they do not use the Welsh spelling and create posters in both the English and Welsh showing differentiation. And like I stated before The Welsh Academy Encyclopedia states it is Cwmbran, and this is not a single author, but the greatest living Welsh historians compiling this tome, and it refers to the same in the Welsh edition too. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:07, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting Local community

Hi

I just wanted to add that TSB is now back in Cwmbran as of September 2013 to help grow the local community. It is located on General Rees Square and has been part of its local community since Cwmbran shopping centre opened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.4.38.191 (talk) 18:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is recentism and banks don't normally open to help grow the local community, they open where profit is possible, like the majority of businesses. This is a good faith edit, but it isn't encyclopedic. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:01, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Thomas and Elizabeth Morgan

Supposedly lived here. Married 81 years until she died January 19,1891, aged 105. He lasted another year, dying at 106. [3]. Guinness record holders? AMCKen (talk) 20:19, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]