Talk:Danny Boy

Muppet rendition

music critics consider the 1978 rendition by the "Limerick Brothers" Animal, beaker, and the Swedish Chef (with alternative lyrics) to be the most emotional video ever produced. Please put these alternative lyrics up and a reference to the music video.

Widely What?

"The song is widely considered an Irish anthem. It is nonetheless widely considered by many Irish Americans and Irish Canadians to be their unofficial signature song."

These two sentences make little sense together. Can someone decipher their meaning, and make the necessary edit. I'm not sure if it means to say that it is not widely considered Irish in Ireland, but that it is sung by Irish-Americans or that even though it is popular in Ireland, it has become the anthem of the diaspora. —168.7.250.93 (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

They mean this, I think '"The song is widely considered an Irish anthem and is considered by many Irish Americans and Irish Canadians to be their unofficial signature song." - AndreaUKA (talk) 22:54, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Like our "Chinese food," which is not found much in China, Danny Boy is a tune for those who dream of Ireland (UK) from outside. Why would this be controversial? We Canadians may tire of hearing about Mounties and igloos, but that is what many outsiders think of when they think of Canada. One can see that people of Irish (or UK, if you prefer) background are moved to hear this pretty tune (the Derry Air and later Londonderry Air), and to hear the lovely story of a parent pining for a son. As Albert said, "the rest are details." 68.84.72.53 (talk) 16:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Mentioned twice: Tir na n'Og recorded it on their debut album in 2006.; Tir na n'Og, recorded it on their 2006 self-titled debut album —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.201.215.50 (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Boy is 'lost'....?

• Although some view the above interpretation of Danny Boy as the true meaning, there is also another meaning for this song. The lyrics were supposedly written by a father who lost his son, Danny.

The logic within the song suggests that 'the father' is in fact dying, and hoping his son, will return, lost as in not dead, to say a prayer over him ?

The pipes are calling for the father ?

The Irish (born in Ireland) are quite adamant that it's NOT an "Irish song"(though the "air" is Irish). Also, serious Irish groups(bands) do not perform the tune, if they have any self-respect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edknuff (talk • contribs) 19:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

--Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 16:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

What you mean to say is that Irish bands do not play Danny Boy unless they have any respect at all for their audiences, who love the song. A historian's purity is completely inappropriate (and ridiculous) in an entertainer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.5.246 (talk) 02:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

What Edknuff wrote is nonsense - the song is still played and sung in Ireland, as in many other countries. Hohenloh ⁺ 13:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I always understood this to be the origin [[1]] - It's a very interesting article, too. AndreaUKA (talk) 23:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

With regard to Irish musicians' attitude towards "Danny Boy", Robbie O'Connell's song "You're Not Irish" is perhaps a clue. It's written from the point of view of an Irish musician who comes to America only to find American audiences complaining because he doesn't perform the "stage Irish" songs they know. From the chorus: "You're not Irish! You can't be Irish, you don't know 'Danny Boy', or 'Toora Loora Loora', or even 'Irish Eyes'..." Jejones3141 (talk) 13:31, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Irishness and edit warring

Several editors are engaged in tit-for-tat changes in the opening sentence of the article as to whether the song is Irish. No sources are presented to lend weight to either argument, and edit notes have been assertive rather than informative. Let's grow up, discuss, and compromise. Songs don't have passports: composers have nationalities, songs have cultural associations. I would suggest an opening sentence of "Danny Boy" is a ballad written by Frederick Weatherly and usually set to the tune of the "Londonderry Air": it is most closely associated with Irish communities. Kevin McE (talk) 11:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Brilliant! Sorted. --Theosony (talk) 19:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I only posted it because of your support, and the lack of voices to the contrary. Now you revert and tell me to discuss. I think you need to explain yourself. Kevin McE (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought it was one of those irritating edits. Long, LONG day!! Sorry about that!--Theosony (talk) 20:19, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

If you read the lyric, it seems to apply as much to Scotland (pipes and glens) as it does to Ireland. And the lyric was written before it was set to the Londonderry Air. Tsinfandel (talk) 14:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Set to an "ancient" Irish melody, the melody is from the 19th century.

"Irish born" sister-in-law is technically true, but a distortion. She was an Ulster protestant. Everything is being done to hide this. The nationalist distortion in this entry is astounding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.99.53 (talk) 22:19, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

verse problem

I dont ever remember there being a second verse nor have I ever heard it. please reply and tell me what you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.241.73 (talk) 00:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Please post new topics for discussion at the bottom of the page. Yes, there are two verses. The second verse is the tearjerker. When it is omitted, it is usually for the sake of brevity. Any amount of research will confirm the second verse. -Verdatum (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

sample please

normally when there is an article refferring to a song, there is a audio sample, and i think that this song should have one to, do you agree or disagree?

Recordings

I have no problem listing every officially released recording of Danny Boy by Notable artists. However, since the list is so very long, and effectively translates to "[Artist] recorded this in [year] on [album]", I suggest converting it to a sortable table. -Verdatum (talk) 16:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

No, that list is completely out of control. If it so important to mention that, this was sung by some jerk on Canadian idol, the there should be a separate page for List of People who have sung Danny Boy. There seem to be a lot of recordings of this song, even notable ones; but there seems to be no authoritative version. I think for that reason, maybe the list should be chucked altogether. Merging this page with the Derry Air would be an excellent pretext to do that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.105.171 (talk) 19:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

"Sung by some jerk on Canadian idol" generally would not be called an officially released recording, nor would "some jerk" be a Notable artist. So that wouldn't meet the criteria I stated. Why does there need to be an authoritative version? I fail to see the relevance. -Verdatum (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I added Maureen O'Hara's recording of the song on her 1962 album "Maureen O'Hara Sings Her Favorite Irish Songs" released in 1962 and reissued in 1991 and again in 2011. I believe that her recording is worthy of inclusion because although she wasn't recognised for her singing she was an accomplished singer and did record a few albums and sang in some of her films as well as on Broadway. Her acting career spanned 60+ years. She is considered by Hollywood historians to be one of the most beautiful women ever to be in film and is also considered by some to be a Hollywood Legend therefore she is a "Notable" person with a large fan base even at 93! Her recording of the song can therefore be considered 'Notable'. Although not known as a singer her recordings are still available on CD whereas many 'singers' cannot claim that. also many of her films are among those considered to be Hollywood Classics and finally as perhaps Ireland's first 'major star' her recording is relevant to the section, the content and the song.:~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.32.29.1 (talk) 13:45, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Mario Lanza

On YouTube we can find this and more versions of this song by Mario Lanza.
Questions: Are they real and if so in what year(s) he recorded them?
Patio (talk) 11:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

merge

Please note : There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/coverversions with the purpose of trying to establish a standard rule for merge/separate different versions of the same song. Please make known your opinions on the matter. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Article Conflict

There is a conflict between this article and the one on Londonderry Air. There, we are told unequivocally that "Weatherly intended the song as a parting message from a woman to a man". This article says "Some contend that 'Danny Boy' was intended as a message from a woman to a man ... but it was actually intended as a father to a son." It would be nice if someone who knows definitively would straighten this out. If no one can say beyond personal preference which is true, appropriate weasel words should be added to both articles. SDCHS (talk) 02:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

[2] appears to be fairly authoritative, and they can't find any strong ruling (such as a statement by the original author) on the meaning. I rather like the idea of it being intentionally ambiguous for the sake of sales, but that's just personal preference. I don't see anything wrong with mentioning both interpretations, and giving preference to neither.

That reference has the original author's alternative words to be sung by a man (with my bold to highlight differences and role reversals). All the evidence is that Weatherly thought Danny Boy in its original form was to be sung by a woman.--Rumping (talk) 22:03, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, Eily dear, the pipes, the pipes are calling

From glen to glen, and down the mountain side

The summer's gone, and all the roses falling

It's I, it's I must go, and you must bide.

But I'll come back when summer's in the meadow

Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow

And you'll be here in sunshine or in shadow

Oh Eily dear, oh Eily dear, I love you so.

Someday, may be, when all the flow'rs are dying

And I am dead, as dead I well may be

Ye'll come and find the place where I am lying

And kneel and say an Ave there for me.

And I shall hear, though soft you tread above me

And all my grave will warmer, sweeter, be

For you will bend and tell me that you love me

And I shall sleep in peace until you come to me.

I've reversed your edit. I read through the reference you provided and all I could see was mention of the fact that occasionally writers such as Weatherly would tailor their songs (i.e. "Eily Dear") for individuals and be recompensed for it. There is no firm evidence of any kind that supports the definitive statement that Weatherly thought that "Danny Boy" was originally intended as a message from a woman to a man". For all we know, the quoted addition at the bottom of one of the printed versions may have been a publishers afterthought in order to maximise sales of the song - where is the link tying it back directly to Weatherly? David T Tokyo (talk) 02:30, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Eily dear was not tailored to an individual, but to male singers. See for example Nigel Parsons' comment at Talk:Danny_Boy/Archive_1 (just before the heading "National Anthem issue") or for example the sheet music at [3]. Add to that the first recording of Danny Boy, the main early singer and the epitaph, and I think there can be little doubt about Weatherly's attitude about the originally intended gender of the singer. I accept he was a commercial songwriter and was happy when anybody (male or female, green or orange) bought his sheet music. --Rumping (talk) 15:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe I'm missing something (apologies if I am) but as far as I can see your argument is based on the fact that the 1918 version of the sheet music of Eily Dear includes a facsimile of Weatherly's signature. However - that is not proof of his intentions as to what the song meant, or who it should be sung by. For that we need a valid quote, relating specifically to that issue, from Fred Weatherly himself. David T Tokyo (talk) 17:55, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually it was the sheet music for Danny Boy, but also provided alternative words for men to sing. It stated it was authorised by Weatherly and appeared under his facsimile signature, which is more than can be said for the 1913 sheet music.--Rumping (talk) 00:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

OK. To be precise - The 1918 version of the sheet music for Danny Boy which includes the references to Eily Dear. However, all of this is still nothing more than speculation. The authorisation or the signature on this particular edition of the sheet music tell us nothing directly about what Fred Weatherly thoughts about his lyrics. What we DO Have is Fred Weatherly's own specific notes about how he came to write Danny Boy. Weatherly tells us that Danny Boy "is sung all over the world by Sinn Feiners and Ulstermen alike". Note that he mentions Men, not Women. Not only is your theory speculative, but it also runs contrary to the one quote we have from Weatherly.

The text on the "Londonderry Air" is also subject to the the same speculation and at odds with the supplied reference. I'll make the necessary changes - thanks for bringing it up. David T Tokyo (talk) 05:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, words he wrote in or before 1918 for the lyrics are a better indication of his intent than words he wrote in 1926 in Piano and Gown after reacting to the popularity of the song. The 1918 lyrics specifically say they were published with his authorisation. You are the one speculating.--Rumping (talk) 00:10, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Please provide the evidence of that authorisation, and also Weatherly's statement that we can take that authorisation to mean that he felt "Danny Boy" should only be sung by women. If you can't do that, kindly stop making these changes. We should be dealing in facts, not supposition. David T Tokyo (talk) 07:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Background

The sentence "Although the lyrics were originally written for a different tune, Weatherly modified them to fit "Londonderry Air" in 1913 when she sent Weatherly a copy. " is unclear - who is the "she" who sent a copy of the Air to Weatherly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scartboy (talk • contribs) 16:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Answered my own question - according to Weatherly, it was his sister-in-law in America. Scartboy (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

name

http://www.standingstones.com/danny3.html#derry

I have put a source, therefore do not reverse my edit unless you want to put up an alternate source for calling it Londonderry air where then I suggest you keep both up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.255.217.212 (talk) 23:01, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

1) Per WP:Engvar and WP:IMOS please don't make a change to a consensus version on such a controversial issue without proper discussion first.

2) Please make sure any source you use is WP:RS. Although the author states media organisations have used him as a subject matter expert, I'm not convinced that particular site is WP:RS (excluding quotations etc) particularly the part on Air from County Derry given 3. (You're welcome to take it to WP:RS/N of course although it doesn't seem to matter.)

3) Please actually read any source you do use. The source you used does not support your claim. In fact, it only mentions 'Derry Air' once and in that mention "If you were a proper Victorian, there's no way you were going to call it the Londonderry Air, much less the Derry Air" it makes it clear 'Derry Air' makes even less sense then Londonderry Air for the time. That section supports 'Air from County Derry' not 'Derry Air' (which as I said is only mentioned once) but primarily based on historical precendence. But for better or worse, that often only has a minor influence on the modern WP:Common name which is what we usually go by (combined with resonable application of WP:Engvar which in this case would probably mean first contributors preference). Elsewhere, it includes numerous other discussions where it refers to 'Londonderry Air' so it in no way even supports the claim 'Air from County Derry' is the common name let alone Derry Air. That source also seems to contradict itself since at first it says the earliest reference to 'Londonderry Air' is in the late 1930s but it later includes what is supposed to be a description from the person who set the lyrics to the tune in 1912 which appears to be from 1926 and that person calls it Londonderry Air. Nil Einne (talk) 14:40, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

4) If you are going to make a change, please don't leave it half done leaving the situation where the article uses both names, confusing to anyone not familiar with the geopolitical mess that is the London/derry controversy.

P.S. I emailed the author on the contradiction.

Nil Einne (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

One After 909

You might mention the Beatles song "One After 909" - John Lennon sang 2 lines from "Danny boy" at the end. Kvsh5 (talk) 16:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

"nothing of the rebel song in it, and no note of bloodshed".

I don't understand, I thought it was about sending a kid off to war? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.45.157.68 (talk) 10:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

That is not an unknown interpretation, but note that it is the singer who stays and may die. The quote comes from the writer after WWI, though the song was written before; he presumably knew what he intended. --Rumping (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Catholic funerals

There needs to be some sort of note about Catholicism in this article. The Catholic Church has banned the playing of Danny Boy at Catholic funerals. It sucks, my Irish Catholic family had to learn 'catholic lyrics' to this secular song for my grandmothers funeral, as Danny Boy is a family tradition for us. Since so many of the Irish are Catholic, and the song is so closely associated with the Irish, I think this is noteworthy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.13.14.233 (talk) 22:15, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I suppose you're aware of the reason for the ban? That, among other points, is well discussed at http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=94716 , along w/ the very attractive "Catholic lyrics" based on the ancient In Paradisum from the funeral liturgy.

However, I think this talk section is enough. I wouldn't really want to see it in the main article. GeorgeTSLC (talk) 16:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Chart positions

Adding a list of United States chart positions (without making it clear that they are from the United States) to a song associated particularly with Northern Ireland is not terribly helpful, and does not show the world view that is required on Wikipedia. Has the song ever charted anywhere else (the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland would seem the most obvious countries)? Skinsmoke (talk) 09:16, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

New information?

Should the new information researched by Anthony Mann, the great-grandson of Frederic Weatherly, be added to the article? Thefamilystoryofdannyboy (talk · contribs) did that, and what he added was later removed.

Here are links to the web site and the book. -- DTRY (talk) 10:37, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Lyrics variation

I decide to replace the many variation of lyrics with the original one. The replaced lyrics is kept below. -- DTRY (talk) 10:48, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flow'rs are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.

But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh, Danny boy, oh, Danny boy, I love you so.

And if you come, and all the flowers are dying
If I am dead, as dead I well may be
I pray you'll find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.

And I shall hear, though soft you tread above me
And all my grave will warm and sweeter be
And then you'll kneel and whisper that you love me
And I shall sleep in peace until you come to me.

or I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

or And I shall rest in peace until you come to me.

or Oh, Danny boy, oh, Danny boy, I love you so.

Original Lyrics

The present lyrics differs from the lyrics that is found in source [2] (I slightly corrected the link which is broken in the original file but which points now directly to the relevant section). Here are some of the most important differences:

• Line 3: "and all the flowers dying," should be "and all the roses falling," which rhymes nicely to line 1 "pipes are calling".
• Line 4: "tis you tis you" reads "It's you it's you" in the original. The same holds for line 7 ("It's I").
• some further little differences (line 9 does not start with "and", "Ye'll come" instead of "You come" in line 11 and so on).

The source I cite stems from 1926. Is there any good reference to the version of the lyrics presented now? If so, it is not given in the article. --Kaernbach (talk) 07:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I just noticed that the original lyrics already entered by DTRY was (with little adaptations) valid until Nov 1 2014 when some IP (221.126.8.59) changed it to something that is nowhere documented. Please refrain from editing the lyrics just for your personal taste. There are original sources and they should be respected. The only difference I allowed for between the version that I now reinstalled and the version from the sources is in line 8. The original reads in source [2] as follows: "Oh, Danny boy, O Danny boy, I love you so!" The second "O" without the "h" seems to be a typo. It would be great if we could come even closer to the original and verify the exact spelling. Kaernbach (talk) 11:23, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Who is Derek Collins?

On April 3rd 2016 Breadsnapper added "2016, Derek Collins, Songs and Stories, Lullaby version recorded by the Irish tenor/balladeer following extensive US tours" as a notable recording. Derek Collins has no page om Wikipedia and the link goes to his facebook page. The link to the song/album goes goes to http://play.coogle.com/store/... where you can buy the record. Notable recording? No! Adverisement? Yes!

The only other contribution by Breadsnapper was a similar link on The Unquiet Grave, soon removed by XLinkBot.

But XLinkBot missed this one, so I removed it as well! Episcophagus (talk) 09:05, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Additional lyrics

There are additional lyrics by Keith Evans, former member of BYU Vocal Point:

O Danny Boy, the stream flows cool and slowly;

And pipes still call and echo ‘cross the glen.

Your broken mother sighs and feels so lowly,

For you have not returned to smile again.

So If you’ve died and crossed the stream before us,

We pray that angels met you on the shore;

And you’ll look down, and gently you’ll implore us

To live, so we may see your smiling face once more,

Once more.

Greetings Harry8 (talk) 11:04, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

The "Usage" section is getting out of hand

We don't need to list every single instance the song was ever played. Right now, most of the entries are unsourced. Most entries also fall into one of the following categories:

• played in a movie, TV show, or video game
• a cover of the song, studio or live recording
• a cultural reference

The cultural references should definitely stay. I think the covers should be removed, and a majority of the movie/tv/game appearances should as well. Not to mention, many of these are poorly and inconsistently formatted. Any thoughts? I'll wait for a consensus before mass-removing, at least for now. Mformatt^{(So it goes.)} 05:22, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree. So, I removed all the uncited or poorly cited examples. Note: a random YouTube video is not an adequate cite. A source has to show that the usage of the song is significant and notable, not merely that it happened. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:02, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2019

My request is to add Bill Monroe to the list of artists who have recorded Danny Boy under the Meaning section. Rambler71 (talk) 13:10, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 21:29, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2019

My request is to add Bill Monroe to the list of artists who have recorded Danny Boy under the Meaning section. I can get the recording information also. Rambler71 (talk) 13:32, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 16:23, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

erm...

Quote: "Frederic Weatherly wrote the lyrics in Bath, Somerset, England in 1913"

Quote: "English lawyer and lyricist Frederic Weatherly wrote the words to "Danny Boy" in Bath, Somerset in 1910"

Best regards -- 62.216.207.61 (talk) 15:53, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Unofficial signature song and anthem particularly by Irish Americans and Irish Canadians

The source for this was a broken link, but is available at [[4]]. Not imo a reliable source. Good topic though, so please restore (I suggest to separate section) if RS exist. Springnuts (talk) 21:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Two flimsy things on the origin of the music and of the lyrics

Two flimsy things on the origin of the music and of the lyrics

First, an artist performed it in Big Sur to a small crowd, and he stated he knew it to be centuries old, perhaps the oldest song in existence. I wondered how anyone could claim that

Second there was a short TV documentary about the song's lyrics, and they said it was written by an Irish American in Colorado per request of a newspaper. Can't remember details

As an American Unitarian, I am quite aware songs are "borrowed"- our National Anthem was a British drinking song for instance.