Talk:Great Western Railway

Infobox

The Infobox used in this article can be found at {{Infobox GWR}}.

Early locos

Quote "After 1902 G. J. Churchward developed a distinctive style of locomotive in 4-4-0 ...".

Should that be 4-4-2?

Songwriter 09:46 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I had the 4-4-0 "City" class in mind, which (as I understand it) were designed while Dean was still nominally in charge, and built in about 1903. I believe Churchward tried out 4-4-2, bringing over three French "Atlantics", converting Albion to a 4-4-2 as a comparison, and building North Star as a 4-4-2 (though it ended up as a 4-6-0). There may have been other 4-4-2 designs. --rbrwr

Ah! I was forgetting about the City class. I was thinking of North Star in its initial form. Thank you.

Songwriter 13:24 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Maarten Tromp

The name of the Flying Dutchman Racehorse came from an old story, and has nothing to do with Maarten Tromp, Trom was never the Flying Dutchman, that story is way older. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.80.157.6 (talk) 03:38, 31 December 2015

Clarify, please

As an American railfan myself, I do understand the fascination with minute details of a favorite railway's construction and operation. However, as a reader, I don't enjoy wading through minutiae to get the most basic facts. It seems to me the whole point and purpose of building the GWR was to haul goods and people between Bristol and London; but just when that was finally able to happen is *not at all clear* from this article.

As an Anglophile, I take a kindly interest from across the sea in British railways - the originals! - and it seems to me that a simple, concise sentence in the lede giving the date the road was completed to Bristol, and the date the first regular trains began running through from Paddington to Temple Meads, is not too much to expect from you fellows, with all your great expertise at the ready. So how about it, chaps? You're not going to leave such a simple question for a foreigner to answer, are you? Textorus (talk) 18:32, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

@Textorus: Do you mean when the line was opened? It was opened in stages: at Great Western Railway#Route of the line we find

The first 22+1⁄2 miles (36 km) of line, from Paddington station in London to Maidenhead Bridge station, opened on 4 June 1838.

and later in the same section we find

The GWR main line remained incomplete during the construction of the 1-mile-1,452-yard (2.94 km) Box Tunnel, which was ready for trains on 30 June 1841, after which trains ran the 152 miles (245 km) from Paddington through to Bridgwater.

Further extensions were opened at subsequent dates, a full list may be found in MacDermot: Volume I Appendix I (pages 857-870) for lines opened 1838-1863; and Volume II Appendix I (pages 595-633) for lines opened 1863-1920. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:23, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Bridgwater and the Box Tunnel - you Brits know where those places are, and their relation to Bristol and the line of the railway - but the rest of the world has no idea. It's rather unkind to throw around geographic names that a general reader will have to hunt up. Much nicer for you to simply state the plain basic facts in the lede, as I said above. An encyclopedia exists to inform, not mystify its readers. And no, I did not ask about when the line first opened, I clearly asked when it was completed. Two simple questions that do not need elaborate explanations or documentation. Textorus (talk) 22:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Box Tunnel is linked, as is Bridgwater in the preceding sentence:

... the Bristol and Exeter Railway (B&ER), the first section of which from Bristol to Bridgwater was opened on 14 June 1841.

We don't repeat links unnecessarily, see WP:OVERLINK. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Maybe so, but you DO confuse your readers unnecessarily. Exeter is south of Bristol; London is east. It does not necessarily follow that the Bristol and Exeter is a component of the route to/from London. But hey, mate, if it's just too hard for you to write one simple sentence explaining what I asked for - which I assure you many other readers in and out of the UK would also like to see - then forget about it. You keep the article just the way you like it, and we'll all go read about something else. Textorus (talk) 15:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I hope this suits: It was founded in 1833, received its enabling Act of Parliament on 31 August 1835 and ran its first trains in 1838 with the initial route completed between London and Bristol in 1841. Geof Sheppard (talk) 17:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

"Great Western Railway/GA1" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Great Western Railway/GA1 and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 8 § Great Western Railway/GA1 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC⁶⁷⁸ 01:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

MacDermot

The Internet Archive has two volumes of MacDermot's History of the Great Western Railway. The second volume, naturally, is named "Vol. II", but the first volume is named "Vol. I Part I". Is there a "Vol. I Part II", or is Part II the same as Vol. II? -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 11:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Verbarson: There are two editions.

The first edition, published in 1927-31, was two volumes but three physical books - volume I, which was published in 1927 and covered the period to 1863, was bound as Volume I Part I and Volume I Part II but these two were sold as a pair - the pagination continued across the split so the page numbers are unique to Vol. I even if you don't know which of the two parts the page is in. Both Prts have a Contents, but only Part II has an index. Volume II, which was published in 1931 and covered the 1863-1921 period, was a single physical book, so has no part numbering. Its pagination restarts at 1.

The second edition, published in the 1960s, was revised by O.S. Nock, and not only is the pagination completely different, volume I is now bound as a single physical book. A Volume III was also added, taking the story from 1921 to 1947. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Thanks for that. Therefore the "Vol. I Part I" in archive.org, which has no index, is indeed only Part I, and "Vol. I Part II" is not in the archive. "Vol. II" is present, as is Nock's "Vol. III".

Since "Vol. I Part I" takes the history up to 1863, and "Vol. II" picks up from 1863, what is in "Vol. I Part II"? Judging by the contents list of "Vol. II", it would be more detailed coverage of services, locomotives and rolling stock. Is that so? -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 14:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not at home right now, I'll check later. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:16, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Here are the cite templates that I normally use:

• MacDermot, E.T. (1927). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. I: 1833–1863. Paddington: Great Western Railway.
• MacDermot, E.T. (1931). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. II: 1863–1921. Paddington: Great Western Railway. OCLC 55853736.

Note that I don't distinguish the two Parts of vol. 1, since the pagination is continuous (see below). I don't have the second editions of these two volumes, but I do have vol. 3:

• Nock, O.S. (September 1967). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. III: 1923–1947. Shepperton: Ian Allan.

Both parts of Vol. I take the story up to 1863-64, ending in one sense with the amalgamation of the GWR, West Midland Railway (WMR) and South Wales Railway in 1863, and in another sense with the retirement of Charles A. Saunders, who had been Secretary of the GWR from before its incorporation until 1864. Part I (pages i-xvi and 1-456 plus a fold-out map of the system as of 1855) is a largely chronological history of the development and expansion of the GWR during this period, and includes previous histories of railways that amalgamated or were absorbed before 1863, such as the Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway and Shrewsbury and Chester Railway. Part II (fold-out map as of 1863, pages i-x and 457-902) begins with the pre-amalgamation histories of the WMR and SWR, and continues with chapters about signalling, services, staff, locomotives and rolling stock. It also includes appendices and the index. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:16, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this together so comprehensively. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 21:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)